TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

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jooko

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja jooko » 14 Touko 2016 10:47

I.1
atha yoga-anuśāsanam
-Attend to these teachings on Yoga.

I.2
yogaś citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ
-Yoga is the restraint of the fluctuations [vṛtti] of the mind.

I.3
tadā draṣtuḥ sva rūpe’vasthānam
-Then, the Seer abides in its own form.

I.4
vṛtti-sārūpyam itaratra
-Otherwise, there is conformity with the fluctuations.

I.5
vṛttayaḥ pañcatayaḥ kliṣṭa akliṣṭāḥ
-Five [types of] fluctuations exist, afflicted [kliṣṭa] or nonafflicted.

** The mental fluctuations which are based on the five afflictions like Avidya* etc. (vide Sutras* II.3-9) are the 'Klista*' ones. If any of the afflictions, namely, wrong knowledge or nescience, the cognition of Buddhi as the pure Self, attachment or passion, antipathy or aversion, and fear of death, causes a fluctuation or modification of the mind, then that is called 'Klista'*. It is so called because the impression that is left behind by such a modification, produces an afflicted mental state. It is because these Vrttis* cause 'Klesa*' or sorrow that they are also called 'Klesa*' or afflictions.

I.6
pramāṇa-viparyaya-vikalpa-nidrā-smṛtayaḥ
-Correct cognition, error, imagining [vikalpa], sleep, and memory.

**In the Yoga philosophy the word Vrtti* has been used technically to imply cognition or conscious mental states. Of them, Pramana* is correct cognition, Viparyaya is incorrect cognition, Vikalpa is the cognition of a thing which does not exist and which is other than Pramana* and Viparyaya; Nidra* or dreamless sleep is indistinct awareness of the state of suppression; and Smrti* or memory is the awareness again of previous cognitions.

I.7
pratyakṣa-anumāna-āgamāḥ pramāṇāni
-Correct cognitions arise from perception, inference, and truthful
testimony.

I.8
viparyayo mithyā-jñānam atad rūpa-pratiṣṭham
-Error, or false knowledge [viparyaya], has no foundation in form.

**Viparyaya is knowing a thing as different from what it really is; Vikalpa is based on words suggesting a non-existing thing; deep (dreamless) sleep is based on obscurity or inertia; recollection is based on only matters felt before. Fluctuations of mind thus vary according to the basis on which they are founded. ... Viparyaya is the general name for all forms of incorrect knowledge. Klesas* like nescience etc. though classed as Viparyaya are really technically so called in relation to spirituality when the total extinction of all miseries is dealt with. Any misapprehension can be called a Viparyaya, but those misconceptions which Yogins consider to be the roots of miseries and eliminable, are regarded as Viparyayas of the nature of affliction (Klesa*).

I.9
śabda-jñāna-anupātī vastu-śūnyo vikalpaḥ
-Imagining [vikalpa] is the result of words and knowledge that are empty of
an object.

*Vikalpa does not fall within the category either of Pramana* or of false cognition (Viparyaya); because though there is no reality behind Vikalpa, yet it has its use through the power of verbal cognition. ...the term is used to indicate an idea which has no existence beyond the word.

**There are expressions and words which have no answering reality. From hearing those words or expressions, an ideation takes place in our minds. That is Vikalpa-vrtti* or modification due to vague notion. Those creatures who express their ideas through language have to depend largely on such notions. 'Ananta' (infinite) is an expression conveying a vague notion. We use that word often and understand its import to some extent. It is, however, not possible to comprehend the real significance of that word. We can understand the significance of 'finite' and from that an insubstantial and vague ideation takes place in our mind through the word 'infinite'.

-Christopher Key Chapple
*Vyasa
**Swami Hariharananda Aranya

Joskus jonkun toisen käännös ja jonkun kolmannen selitykset selkeyttää, joskus ei...

JoopaJoo

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja JoopaJoo » 18 Syys 2016 01:43

Yoga sutrien loppuosaa:

IV.25
viśeṣa-darśina ātma-bhāva-bhāvanā-vinivṛttiḥ
-The one who sees the distinction discontinues the cultivation of
self-becoming.

Tai: For One Who Has Realised The Distinctive Entity, i.e. Purusa,
Inquiries About The Nature Of His Self Ceases

*The reflections regarding the self referred to, are like this: `Who was I? What is this (body etc.)? How did it come into being? What shall I be and how?' Such queries cease for one who has the distinctive knowledge of the Self, Purusa.

**After the Purusa-principle is realised, it becomes clear through discriminative enlightenment that the ordinary conceptions about the self are but modifications of the mind and that the mind appears to be related to Purusa on account of nescience. Therefore, all queries about the self cease and nothing remains obscure about it. `What I am' and `what I am not' become perfectly clear. Of course, in the initial stage misgivings about the self are allayed by true knowledge derived through inference and from the study of scriptures. Once the truths are realised through concentration, the doubts cease for ever.

IV.26
tadā viveka-nimnaṃ kaivalya-prāgbhāraṃ cittaṃ
-Then, inclined toward discrimination, the mind has a propensity
for kaivalyam.

*At that time (when it is filled with knowledge of the special distinction) the mind of the devotee, which was so long occupied with the experience of objects of senses and roaming along paths of ignorance, takes a different turn. Then it directs itself towards liberation [=kaivalya (n.) isolation] and moves in the path of discriminative knowledge.

LOPPUTULOS:
IV.34
puruṣa-artha-śūnyānāṃ guṇānāṃ pratiprasavaḥ kaivalyaṃ
svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi- śaktir iti
-The return to the origin of the guṇas, emptied of their purpose for
puruṣa, is kaivalyam, the steadfastness in own form, and the power of
higher consciousness.

-The concluding sūtra completes the definition of Yoga as an
embodied experience given in I:3: “Then there is abiding in
the Seer’s own form.”

*Kaivalya or liberation (of Purusa) is the state of permanent cessation of the Gunas which work as cause and effect, and after having brought about experience and liberation (Apavarga), have no further service to render to Purusa. In other words, Kaivalya is the state which is reached when the supreme Consciousness is established in Its own self, i.e. when It is unrelated to or unconcerned with Buddhi, and remains all alone for all time.

**We perceive objects either through our senses or from our feelings and then think of them with the help of words. But there are concepts which can be expressed in words but which have no corresponding real entities, e.g. space, time, void, infinitude, etc. Extension, existence, number, etc. are also words with no basis in reality but are only verbal concepts. This sort of idea (Vikalpa) rooted in words, which cannot be thought of in a concrete form, but is a vague ideation in respect of non-physical thing expressed in words for common use, is called Abhikalpana or conception. Such conception may or may not be based on reason, and may or may not relate to real things. But the idea of Purusa and Prakrti, or in other words, the metempiric Self and the constituent principle of the objective world has to be understood by cogent anticipatory conception since these cannot be thought of in any concrete form.

In the Upanisads it is said that He is to be conceived in the heart of hearts by a subtle intellect with a tranquil mind. "He is to be conceived as only existing; how else can He be realised?" "He is not the subject of words (i.e. cannot ordinarily be described) as He is beyond the perception of the mind." `Unperceivable', `unusable', `unthinkable', etc. are the negative adjectives through which we chiefly understand the Purusa-principle. He has to be described as existing and that existence is free from any trace of non-self and is the basis of the common experience of and the essence of non-dual I-sense. To conceive Him in this sort of logical terms is a rational conception. Starting with such rational conception of Purusa, one should later forsake even that, that is one should gradually shut out the fluctuations of the mind. This will lead to the direct apprehension of Purusa beyond attributes, which is realisation of the Self.**

JoopaJoo

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja JoopaJoo » 18 Syys 2016 01:46

Buddhalaista oppia Intiasta monta sataa vuotta Patanjali/Vyasan jälkeen:

6.3. Mystic intuition of a seer. (19.10) The mystic intuition of a
seer (yogijnana) is the knowledge that is produced on the termination of
intensive meditation on a true object. This is also [a species of indeter-
minate knowledge]. Yoga (meditation) here is samadhi (concentration)
and it is characterised by intent attention of the mind on one object
(cittaikagrata). This is the same as wisdom (prajna) discerning the
truth of all things. Yogin (a seer) is so called because he is possessed
of yoga. The knowledge of a yogin is indeterminate knowledge. What
kind of knowledge is it? It is explained as what is produced after
the termination of intensive meditation (bhavanaprakarsaparyantaja) on
a true object (bhutartha). 'True object' is an object compatible with valid
knowledge. Meditation practice (bhavana) means to imagine (samaropa)
[an object] repeatedly in the mind. The knowledge which is produced on
the ternination of the intensive meditation on the truth is devoid of
determining factors (kalpanapodha) and non-erroneous. The true object
is the fourfold noble truth (caturaryasatya) named pain, the causes [of
pain], the extinction [of pain] and the way to the extinction (dukkha-
samudaya-nirodha-marga). We should understand the five groups (panca-
skandha) in the manner that they are by nature momentary (ksanika),
void (sunya), soulless (niratmaka), painful, and so forth. And this truth
should be known to be compatible with inferential knowledge such as
'Whatever is existent is momentary' and others (which are to be fully
discussed in Chapter III).

6.3.1. Questions regarding meditation and emancipation answered.

(20.1) (The opponent] raises the following questions: 1) Meditation is
[concerned with] fictional constructs (vikalpa) ; fictional constructs refer
to unreal objects. How then can a real thing vividly manifest itself [in
the meditation]? 2) How can [yogijnana which is by nature] conceptual
attain indeterminateness? 3) How can the mind which is momentary be
fixed upon one object?[...]

(20.5) (The author:] Our reply is this: 1) Although fictional constructs
are (primarily] concerned with an imaginary object (avastuvisaya), it
indirectly envisages (adhyavasyati) [the form of] an actual object. This
is the reason why actual things are manifested vividly in this (yogic
intuition] because of meditation.

2) We do not say that a fictional construct (or determinate knowledge]
is identical with indeterminate knowledge, but that indeterminate know-
ledge is produced from determinate knowledge (through adhyavasaya].
Furthermore, it is well established by direct experience (anubhavasiddha)
that the non-conceptual vision manifests itself to one who constantly
meditates [on the object], as in the case of love, sorrow, etc. Indeed
there is no irrelevance whatsoever in such an experience (drsta).

(Whatever is meditated on possibly manifests itself clearly at the end of inten-
sive meditation, as the figure of a beloved girl appears to her lover; real teachings such
as the non-existence of the soul proved from universal momentariness are meditated upon
by one who seeks for the supreme good of human being.)

3) Momentary as the mind may be, it is called 'fixed on one object'
when it is intent on grasping [the object] during all the period consisting
of a series of homogeneous [mental] moments (sajatiyaksanesu).
[...]

An introduction to Buddhist philosophy : an annotated translation of the Tarkabhasa of Moksakaragupta / by Yuichi Kajiyama.
http://repository.kulib.kyoto-u.ac.jp/d ... 077585.pdf

JoopaJoo

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja JoopaJoo » 18 Syys 2016 01:50

Samkhya-joogit pohtii aluksi Purusa ja Prakrti käsitteitään ja sitten meditoivat kuvitelmaansa kunnes se 'toteutuu'? Ja Buddhalaiset ensin loogisesti päättelee sielun ei-olemassaolevaksi ja sitten meditoivat luulojensa pohjalta kunnes se tuntuu todelliselta? Ja vastaavasti hindut pohtii maailmansielu juttujaan, krishnojaan tai mitä lie ja sitten meditoivat luuloaan kunnes se tuntuu todelliselta?

Joop

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja Joop » 18 Syys 2016 22:10

Jos tästä on jollekin jotain iloa:

Yoga Philosophy Of Patanjali Ed. 1st
Author: Aranya, Swami Hariharananda
http://www.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/149330

vibhuti

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja vibhuti » 18 Marras 2016 20:00

2- eiku kolme
vihje? vastaus-->
oon aina ollu sitä mieltä et tietoo pitää jakaa
joten tässä se nyt on!
oli hyvä asana-harjoitus tänää. päädyin lukemaan TKV Desikacharin sitä kirjaa

ainoo mitä sain et porukka vähä ylpeenä
julistaa tiedän,,katos mikä on..siddhi

voi jumalauta!

ksr_dsna
Viestit: 210
Liittynyt: 03 Helmi 2017 12:34
Viesti:

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja ksr_dsna » 01 Maalis 2017 23:08

laitetaan pikavastaus. BKS KPJ
näin laitetaan vähän joogaa tosta koko maailmalle

ksr_dsna
Viestit: 210
Liittynyt: 03 Helmi 2017 12:34
Viesti:

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja ksr_dsna » 24 Touko 2017 09:19

Vieläkin ihmettelen miks piti kääntää suomen kielelle. Eikö jo riitä, että devanagarilla kirjoitettu ja sitä paitsi viel Krishnamacaryan oppilas ite ITE kääntää sen enkuks. pitikö vielä mennä sottaamaan koko franchise.
Eiköhän teilläkin kakarat ois ollu helpompaa muuttaa pohjoiseen
edit1
joo joo anna tulla vaan. Bhagavad Gita: hear-say"ajattele aina minua niin tulet varmasti luokseni."
Aletaan tos ajattelee KRSNAA ja kirjoitetaan vittu suomennos patanjalin jooga-suutrista siina samalla.

edit2
mieti, suomes jengi kärsii tota jätkää. ei varmasti muuten oo nähny krsnaa. ja silti julkasee anandaa. meiän koko yhteiskunta kärsii tollasta jätkää, joka kukkoilee tunkiolla jollai ananda-lehdellä! Hyväähän se tarkoitti (tos tulee iso tiputus) mut se ei edes yritä ajatella krsnaa
Koska se ei voi käsittää sitä, ettei sen elämä nyt just tapahdu sen oman halun johdosta. nyt jo hämäännyin tästäkin. tää ei oo et haluan tulla jumalaksi. oon jedi ja käytän elämäni kaikki voimat to a surrender of dark side of power
edit3
koska josset sä oo nähny sitä sä et voi miettiä sitä. Mua ei oikeesti kiinnosta kui monta shastraa osaat ulkoa ja miten paljon sulla on kirjoja kotona. Josset sä oo nähny sitä sä et oo nähny sitä. Ja 5 milj ihmistä ottaa damaa tosta
ja nyt muistan mitä mun piti sanoo. tää on kriitinen hit
"Sä pietät sun lehen lukiojoita yhtä tyhmäNÄ kuin sinä." wrap your mind around that. Dear lord mitä paskaa oikeesti joogan nimissä tässäkin maassa annetaan pyörii printing-press
oi, pitäiskö oikein tiedätsä tarjota kaikki tämän teon hedelmät kaikille aistiville olennoille. Hei tää oo tuhansien järvien maa, kuulikko!?

June

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja June » 11 Kesä 2017 22:08

Hyvä esitys sanskritiksi, Yoga Sutras: Samadhi Padah:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuIuq2tWdWc

Ja samalta esittäjältä "Call And Response" opetusversio, missä länkkärioppilas ääntää välillä vähän pieleen tuota pyhää sanskritin kieltä:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzCrhOPxt6M

ksr_dsna
Viestit: 210
Liittynyt: 03 Helmi 2017 12:34
Viesti:

Re: TKV Desikacharin yoga sutrat

ViestiKirjoittaja ksr_dsna » 21 Heinä 2017 21:49

Yks hyvä juttu muuten meditaatiosta jos ketää kiinnostaa. Pursue the pause between two thoughts, is that meditation?
Lähde vaanimaan sitä. En oo yhtään varma onko asia näin. Joskus ku käytin Himalaya Herbals tuotteita sillon ku kukaan ei viel opettanu mulle pranayamaa, sain mieleni keskittymään hetkeks vaik Espal, kuhan vaa vedin kaks tabuu. Mut tuohon aikaan nukuin joku 5h päiväs ja sadhanaa joku 6h päiväs. Tosin kävin siinä samalla opiskelemassa täyspäiväisesti AMK:ssa ja varmaan mietit mitä?
Noku kulttuurista pois-ehdollistuminen ei ookkaan sun opettajan vastuulla. Sun vastuulla on tuhota kaikki kontaktit kaikkiin niihin dependent-arising jotka come your way. Oikeesti ihan sama millaseks sun "jopa" pahin vihamiehes muuttuu, ne vihellykset ja respect-huudot ovat aiheettomia. No en tiedä
Kuka muka väittää tai ootko löytäny TKV Desikacharin Yoga-Sutra of Patañjalin sivuilta jotain tähän viittaavaa: "Kun mietiskelet ja huomaat, että kahden ajatuksen välissä on tauko, se tauko on mediaatiota."


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